Sky News’ Host Confronts Education Secretary For ‘Laughing’ When Asked About Powers To Arrest Homeless ‘If They Smell’
Sky News host Kay Burley paused Education Secretary Gillian Keegan for appearing to laugh during her response to a question about powers to arrest rough sleepers “if they smell” as part of the government’s new Criminal Justice Bill.
The bill is aimed at replacing the 200-year old Vagrancy Act 1824, which makes rough sleeping illegal. The Tories are facing a backbench rebellion, however, over certain provisions within the new bill that allow police to forcibly arrest or move rough sleepers using “nuisance prevention orders.” The government says it wants to push back on “nuisance begging” but critics have pointed out that the broad definitions in the bill effectively “criminalise” homelessness and include criteria like creating “excessive smell” or someone who just looks like they are planning to sleep on the streets.
Keegan appeared on Sky News Tuesday to discuss the legislation but was confronted by the host, who asked about the specifics of the bill.
Burley: “Should rough sleepers be arrested if they’re a nuisance?”
Keegan: “Well, of course, if somebody’s acting aggressively or being a nuisance, then that is different. So, you know, the police are operating…”
Burley: “Sorry, Secretary of State, we’re running out of time. You were a little late to us. What about if they smell? The bill states that rough sleepers might be considered a nuisance if there’s an excessive smell. So if you smell, you might be arrested.”
Keegan: “Well, I mean, I think the most important thing, as I say…”
Burley: “It’s not funny.”
Keegan [cont’d]: “…is to make sure we help people off the streets. No, I’m not saying it’s funny. I’m saying the most important thing is to help people off the streets.”
Burley: “Should people be arrested if they smell?”
Keegan: “Well, no, people should not be arrested just if they smell. But, of course, what we’ll be doing is we’ll be considering any legislation. But, Kay, the most important thing is what we’re doing, £2 billion to make sure that we help homelessness…”
Burley: “Then why criminalise people if they find themselves sleeping rough? It’s not a lifestyle choice, despite what Suella Braverman says.”
Keegan: “No, it’s not a lifestyle choice. Normally, people have had a lot of hardship before they got to that point. And I’ve spoken to many people in that situation. Usually, they’ll have suffered some kind of breakdown or they’ll be addicted to something and they need support and help into homes. However, it is still not acceptable if people are threatening or there was some talk of sort of aggressively begging near to cash points, etc. So that’s… you know, you do have to get the balance and the line right.
Burley: “Why then include… Sorry, Secretary of State, it’s much easier when you’re in the studio, but we’re almost out of time and we are down the line. There is a slight delay. Why does the bill then say that rough sleepers might be considered a nuisance if there’s an excessive smell? How ridiculous, some might say, to put that in the bill?”
Keegan: “Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I haven’t looked at that detail of it, but, I mean… I guess the word is excessive and I don’t know what they mean then. But it’s really about making sure that we support people, but also we make sure that people feel safe on our streets and to go around our streets and it’s a pleasant environment. That’s what we spend a lot of time on and our police spend a lot of time trying to make sure that we all feel safe.”
Reflecting on the interview with her co-host Gareth Barlow, Burley said that she felt that Keegan may have been laughing out of awkwardness and warned Barlow against his more critical take on the Education Secretary’s behaviour, joking if he continues: “There will be no minister tomorrow.”