‘Not Fear-Mongering!’ CNN’s Kaitlan Collins Hammers Ted Cruz On IVF and Abortion

CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins hammered Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) over his IVF bill and his claim that “media fear-mongering” caused panic among reproductive caregivers in some states.

Cruz introduced a bill this week that purports to “Protect IVF” by withholding Medicaid funds to states that prohibit the procedure.

On Wednesday night’s edition of CNN’s The Source with Kaitlan Collins, Collins duked it out with Cruz in a series of contentious exchanges, including an extended confrontation over the IVF bill and abortion.

Collins pointed out that the IVF bill doesn’t prohibit bans, and repeatedly smacked down Cruz’s attempts to cast concerns about IVF and abortion access as “fear-mongering” by fact-checking him on the spot:

COLLINS: You proposed a bill this week–

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: –focusing on IVF.

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: And this fight that we’ve seen play out since what happened in my home state of Alabama.

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: This bill would essentially make states ineligible to receive Medicaid funding, if they banned IVF in their state.

CRUZ: Right.

COLLINS: Some may look at that and say, why not go one step further and just protect and create a federal protection for IVF access?

CRUZ: Well, that’s exactly what this bill does. It provides a categorical protection for IVF.

And the reason I did it is number one, I strongly support IVF. I think IVF is an incredible technology. I mean, it has given millions of parents, hope, who couldn’t otherwise have children. The statistics are amazing. 2 percent of all births in America come from IVF. There are over 8 million babies that have been born through IVF.

And you look at the state of things, right now. I think there are a lot of people, who are confused and scared that they feel that IVF is in jeopardy. And following the Alabama Supreme Court decision, a lot of people were very worried about that.

In the Senate, to the best of my knowledge, all 100 senators support IVF. I’m not aware of a single senator who doesn’t.

And so, what happened, I approached Kate — Katie Britt, Senator from Alabama. And I said, look, let’s team up, and let’s draft a very simple bill that creates strong federal protections that makes clear, no state can ban IVF. And that’s what we did.

We made it as a condition of Medicaid funding. That’s a frequent method of imposing a federal restriction on the states. It’s long upheld in the courts.

COLLINS: Yes, but I’m curious about that because I mean, your home state of Texas, my home state of Alabama, they’re not seeking to ever expand Medicaid funding. It’s more of a punishment. So, it’s kind of tied to that. So, they could still technically ban IVF.

CRUZ: I–

COLLINS: They just wouldn’t be able to receive Medicaid funding, if they did.

CRUZ: But as a practical matter, no one is going to turn down billions of dollars, in Medicaid funds.

It’s a method. For example, it’s how Congress used — Congress used Highway funds, to get states to raise the drinking age to 21. And it was the same thing. It was a condition, you don’t get your Highway funds unless you raise the age. And they did so.

It’s how Congress, you go back in the 70s, used Highway funds, also, to lower the speed limit to 55. They ended up allowing it to raise again.

But if you look at congressional authority, the Spending Clause is a component of the Constitution that Congress has unquestioned authority, to attach conditions to federal spending. And so, we attached it to Medicaid.

There is no state in the union, that’s going to turn down the massive amount of money for Medicaid. And so, it operates as a clear federal protection, an ironclad protection, that no state and no local government can ban IVF.

COLLINS: Yes. But in Alabama, they didn’t ban IVF. The Supreme Court just came out there, ruled that essentially embryos count as children. And that was why you saw, there’s not that many IVF clinics.

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: A lot of them closed down out of fear of what the legal landscape was there.

If there was a federal law protecting access to IVF, that wouldn’t have happened.

CRUZ: Well, that’s right. And that’s why I think we should pass a federal law. And I think it’s notable, when the Alabama Supreme Court decision came down, that the Alabama legislature came in very quickly, within weeks, and passed a law.

COLLINS: Which you don’t often see from them.

CRUZ: You don’t often. And they moved quickly to make clear IVF is fully protected, in Alabama. And that’s true in all 50 states. That I’m not aware, I literally don’t know of a state legislator, in any state, that wants to ban IVF.

But I want to take the fear off the table, because people are afraid. And I understand. And you’re right, in Alabama, following the Supreme Court decisions, the clinics, there, halted their treatments. And that’s fundamentally wrong.

And that’s why I said, look, part of it is we’re seeing a lot of fear- mongering. We’re seeing people, for political reasons, that are trying to scare voters and say– COLLINS: So, I’ve heard you say that, which is interesting, because in Alabama, that wasn’t what I saw up-close. I mean, I know these people. It was that they were worried that they were going to be prosecuted, if there was a mishap and an accident–

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: –in a facility, like in Alabama. It wasn’t fear-mongering out on the media. It was people in the state were worried that they would be prosecuted.

CRUZ: Well, and let me be clear, the fear-mongering is all across the country. But look, I understand why the IVF clinics that they were uncertain what to do in Alabama, and they halted temporarily. And I’m really glad the Alabama legislature came in, and said no, you guys are fine. This is important.

I think IVF is incredibly important. And where the fear-mongering is happening is in the other 49 states. And you have, frankly Democrats, who are fairly cynically trying to scare voters and say, the mean Republicans want to take away IVF.

COLLINS: Well I’m glad you’ve brought–

CRUZ: And that’s not true.

COLLINS: I’m glad you brought that up. Because the reason that premise is out there is because of what’s happened with abortion, and what we’ve seen happen in states like your State of Texas, where almost all abortions are banned. There’s no exceptions for rape or incest in the State of Texas. And they only have a pretty narrow exception, if the health and the life of the mother is at risk.

CRUZ: Yes.

COLLINS: That didn’t apply to Kate Cox. Everyone knows her story.

Did you support that Supreme Court ruling from your state, preventing Kate Cox from getting an abortion?

CRUZ: Look, what happened to Kate Cox was horrific. And she was a mom, who had kids, who wanted to have another child, and discovered that her unborn child had a fatal disease that that would kill her child. And that is a horrific situation.

As you noted, the Texas law has an exception in it, for a birth that would do serious damage, to a critical life-functioning of the mother. And what the Texas Supreme Court concluded — and I think there’s a very good argument that that she fell under that exception.

But what the Texas Supreme Court said in its opinion is it asked the Texas Medical Board, go in and set clear rules, because the Texas Supreme Court said look, under this law, it’s doctors that should be making this determination. It shouldn’t be courts. It shouldn’t be lawyers. It should be–

COLLINS: So, do you disagree with the ruling?

CRUZ: I think the Texas Supreme Court was right in saying that the Texas Medical Board should set the rules. And listen, there’s a big difference between abortion and IVF.

COLLINS: But the Medical Board doesn’t make the law. I mean, it’s lawmakers in the state.

CRUZ: Well but it clarifies the standards. And the Texas Supreme Court unanimously called on the Medical Board, to clarify the standards because doctors were uncertain. And–

COLLINS: That feels like it’s deflecting from the lawmakers in the state to the doctors, to have to decide, what the law is.

CRUZ: Well, no, it’s actually empowering the doctors, because there’s a Medical Board there for a reason.

And listen, there’s an enormous difference between abortion and IVF. On abortion, abortion is an issue that people are hotly divided that there’s a real division of opinion. And people of good faith can disagree on that and can disagree passionately and emotionally.

And what the Supreme Court said, in returning this to the States, is under our Constitution, the way we resolve issues that there are strong disagreements, is through the electoral process. And what that means is the voters in Texas decide the Texas law.

COLLINS: Yes, you believe it’s a state’s issue, for abortion — or for IVF, but not for abortion?

CRUZ: I think what the court has said is abortion is an issue the states can decide, because Texas is going to adopt very different laws than New York. And, of course, they should.

IVF is different, because the overwhelming majority of Americans strongly support IVF. 84 percent of Americans want to see it protected in law.

COLLINS: Well, as you know, a lot of Americans support abortion rights as well. We’ll see, of course, the political, how that plays out in November.

Watch above via CNN’s The Source with Kaitlan Collins.